According to AVERT, the international AIDS charity, global estimates for 2007 showed that there were 33 Million people living with AIDS, that includes men, women, and children. There were 2.7 Million newly infected people in 2007. Other statistics on their website show that……
More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.
Africa has 11.6 million AIDS orphans.
At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 59% in sub-Saharan Africa.
Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.
In developing and transitional countries, 9.7 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.99 million (31%) are receiving the drugs.
And according to a table on their website….
Regional statistics for HIV & AIDS, end of 2007
Region Adults & children
living with HIV/AIDSAdults & children
newly infectedAdult prevalence* Deaths of
adults & childrenSub-Saharan Africa 22.0 million 1.9 million 5.0% 1.5 million North Africa & Middle East 380,000 40,000 0.3% 27,000 Asia 5 million 380,000 0.3% 380,000 Oceania 74,000 13,000 0.4% 1,000 Latin America 1.7 million 140,000 0.5% 63,000 Caribbean 230,000 20,000 1.1% 14,000 Eastern Europe & Central Asia 1.5 million 110,000 0.8% 58,000 North America, Western & Central Europe 2.0 million 81,000 0.4% 31,000 Global Total 33.0 million 2.7 million 0.8% 2.0 million * Proportion of adults aged 15-49 who were living with HIV/AIDS
You will notice that Africa has by far the largest number of infected people in the world. The point in showing all these statistics is to highlight the absurd statements made by the Pope that the use of condoms in Africa could possibly increase the problem of AIDS in Africa. He didn’t elaborate how this could happen. It’s true that just handing out condoms and money to Africa isn’t going to solve the problem of HIV and AIDS, only education and the correct use of condoms will prevent new infections. It is also true that condoms are not 100% effective, but according to the Treatment Action Campaign male latex condoms are the most efficient technology there is to reduce the transmission of HIV among sexually active South Africans.
The Pope’s solution to the AIDS epidemic? Abstinence and fidelity in marriage. That’s right, an 82 year old virgin is telling you that you shouldn’t have sex before marriage, and that you shouldn’t cheat on your spouse. It would be lovely to live in the Pope’s idea of a perfect world, but it doesn’t exist. Humans by nature, are sexual creatures and will always be so. All we can do is educate them about the best ways to stay healthy and help them prevent nasty diseases from spreading. This isn’t the first time the Vatican has got it wrong. In 2003/04 the Vatican published a document by Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo published which stated that…..
…….condoms have holes in them, allowing HIV- the virus that causes AIDS – to pass through.
The document even suggested that condoms were one of the main reasons for the spread of HIV because they promote promiscuity. However, the misinformation contained in Cardinal Trujillo’s document was quickly refuted by the World Health Organisation, and even by some Catholic organisations such as Condoms4Life ….
Cardinal Alfonso Trujillo’s claim on a recent BBC program that “the AIDS virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the ‘net’ that is formed by the condom.” The World Health Organization immediately declared, “These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million.” WHO maintains “consistent and correct” use of condoms reduces transmission by 90 percent.
Just to illustrate how deadly the wrong information can be, have a look at the statistics for Sub Saharan Africa. The highest number of infections in that area are from South Africa, thanks to Thabo Mbeki’s belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, and also thanks to the criminally incompetent Health Minister , Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, who promoted beetroot and garlic as a cure for this deadly epidemic.
Anyone who promotes incorrect information which leads to preventable deaths on a large scale should be hauled before an international court and charged with genocide, be they Popes or Presidents.
Filed under: Religion, Stupidity | Tagged: Abstinence, Africa, AIDS, AVERT, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, condoms, HIV, Manto, Pope Benedict XVI, Sex, South Africa, Thabo Mbeki, The Vatican, Treatment Action Campaign, Tshabalala-Msimang
God Bless Pope Benedict XVI
It’s you have either elevated animals to the same level as humans in their lack of ability to control their sexual drive or else you have devalued humans to the role of animal with no control. Either way, you are wrong. http://welcome.allthingschurch.org/
Archie, humans are animals. I’m more interested to know why you find animal sexual behaviour so disgusting as to think I’ve “devalued” human sexuality to the role of animals with no control? Where did you get that idea from? Is it because I said that human beings are sexual creatures by nature? Animals do not go about having sex where and whenever they please, it depends on whether that animal is mature enough to breed and on whether it is ready to breed. Some primates – and that includes us – like bonobos, use sex as a way of socialising within the group. As far as I know, and I am open to correction, human beings are the only ones with perverted sexual behaviour.
There is nothing wrong with having one or more sexual partners, or having sex with someone of the same gender, providing it is agreed upon among consenting adults.
To spread lies and misinformation such as the statements made by the pope is criminal. Condoms DO NOT in any way spread HIV and AIDS. Sex education and teaching people how to use a condom properly goes a long way in preventing the spread of this horrible disease.
Not only is it important to prevent disease, it’s also important to prevent unwanted pregnancies. How do you expect impoverished people to have a chance at a better life when they have too many mouths to feed?
I’d like to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons Blacksheep. What do you think of this? Will you venture a secular sneer at a Harvard professor?
Harvard AIDS Expert Says Pope is Correct on Condom Distribution Making AIDS Worse
By John-Henry Westen
March 19, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Edward C. Green, director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, has said that the evidence confirms that the Pope is correct in his assessment that condom distribution exacerbates the problem of AIDS.
“The pope is correct,” Green told National Review Online Wednesday, “or put it a better way, the best evidence we have supports the pope’s comments.”
“There is,” Green added, “a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction ‘technology’ such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by ‘compensating’ or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology.” ( see the full interview with Green here:http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTNlNDc1MmMwNDM0OTEzMjQ4NDc0ZGUyOWYxNmEzN2E)
The Harvard AIDS Project’s webpage on Green lists his book “Rethinking AIDS Prevention: Learning from Successes in Developing Countries”. It is stated that Green reveals, “The largely medical solutions funded by major donors have had little impact in Africa, the continent hardest hit by AIDS. Instead, relatively simple, low-cost behavioral change programs–stressing increased monogamy and delayed sexual activity for young people–have made the greatest headway in fighting or preventing the disease’s spread.”
The full text of Pope Benedict XVI’s exchange with the reporter, which has set off a firestorm around the world in the media, has been released by the Vatican press office.
The pope was asked, “Holy Father among the many evils that affect Africa there is also the particular problem of the spread of AIDS. The position of the Catholic Church for fighting this evil is frequently considered unrealistic and ineffective?”
Benedict XVI replied:
“I would say the opposite. I think that the reality that is most effective, the most present and the strongest in the fight against AIDS, is precisely that of the Catholic Church, with its programs and its diversity. I think of the Sant’Egidio Community, which does so much visibly and invisibly in the fight against AIDS … and of all the sisters at the service of the sick.
“I would say that one cannot overcome this problem of AIDS only with money — which is important, but if there is no soul, no people who know how to use it, (money) doesn’t help.
“One cannot overcome the problem with the distribution of condoms. On the contrary, they increase the problem.
“The solution can only be a double one: first, a humanization of sexuality, that is, a spiritual human renewal that brings with it a new way of behaving with one another; second, a true friendship even and especially with those who suffer, and a willingness to make personal sacrifices and to be with the suffering. And these are factors that help and that result in real and visible progress.
“Therefore I would say this is our double strength — to renew the human being from the inside, to give him spiritual human strength for proper behavior regarding one’s own body and toward the other person, and the capacity to suffer with the suffering. … I think this is the proper response and the church is doing this, and so it offers a great and important contribution. I thank all those who are doing this.”
See Dr. Green’s impressive credentials and list of publications at:
url=http://www.harvardaidsprp.org/faculty-staff/edward-c-green-bio.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09031906.html
Herewith my response in support dcmattozzi and Archie!
Yes, God bless the Pope ,and Archie, I am totally in agreement with what you are saying, perhaps Blacksheep needs to reread this?
Of course Catholic Church teaching will be scorned by the secular world. It’s only to be expected that people who are so removed from a deeper sense of who they are spiritually will align human behavior to that of animal behaviour.
Even though condoms can be safe sometimes, the risk of death from AIDS (even if it is only a small percentage) is surely not worth the risk. The idea that married people are so unable to control their desires that they would rather risk infecting their spouse than abstain is absurd.
Humans are not animals as we have a conscience—animals have no such thing. Humans look for meaning in their life—-’Why am I on this planet? What is my role in this life? Is this all to life? — amongst many other important questions that satisfy human desire for answers.
Animals react to urges and cycles in their reproductive lives. We LOVE each and are concerned for the wel-being of our nearest and dearest, AS WELL AS other’s welfare and development—-animals have no social conscience at all. They certainly would not give up their food to share it with other hungry animals.
In case Blacksheep didn’t get the message:- this is what the Pope actually said:-
This is what the Pope actually said:-
…”I would say that this problem of AIDS cannot be overcome with advertising slogans. If the soul is lacking, if Africans do not help one another, the scourge cannot be resolved by distributing condoms; quite the contrary, we risk worsening the problem. The solution can only come through a twofold commitment: firstly, the humanization of sexuality, in other words a spiritual and human renewal bringing a new way of behaving towards one another; and secondly, true friendship, above all with those who are suffering, a readiness — even through personal sacrifice — to be present with those who suffer. And these are the factors that help and bring visible progress”.
SOUL is mentioned. Animals are sadly lacking in this department. Yes, without a SOUL we will resort to having sex when we have AIDS, because the urge is to strong to deny and because it’s an animalistic need. We have no sense of justice , no sense of the bigger picture, no sense of responsibility. No sense that there is more to life than just pleasing yourself whenever and with whomever you want to (even if you have the deadly AIDS virus)
What I ‘m saying is, Blacksheep, I’m afraid you’ve got IT wrong again!!
Some bedtime reading:-
http://www.hli.org/condom_expose_complete.html
Hello Peaches,
If you read my post, you will sea that I said……..
Now, I do agree with some of what Dr. Green said – that we need to change people’s attitudes about having multiple sexual partners. To accomplish a change in attitude will take a generation or more, so surely in the meantime people should use any means they can to protect themselves from sexually transmitted diseases? However Dr. Green’s point also raises other questions. One of which is this, who are we to decide that our idea of how people should should conduct themselves is the right one? What we see as preferable behavoiur might not be seen as such by other cultures.
For instance, there are a few African cultures who encourage men to have more than one wife; the president of the ANC has 5 or 6 wives. Another thing to consider is this, (speaking as a South African), many men here are migrant workers, they move into cities to find work leaving their wives and families at home. Most only go home once or twice a year, what do you think they do for the rest of the time, remain celibate?
Don’t you think that it would be far better for them to take precautions by using a condom than not using anything at all?
Here’s some bedtime reading for you:- http://www.tac.org.za/community/node/2508.
The Treatment Action Campaign is an organisation that has been involved in educating people about the prevention of AIDS and helping those infected get access to treatment. They have over 10 years experience and I suggest that you have a look at their statistics once you’ve finished reading the article I’ve linked to.
Going back to what the pope said, and yes I understood perfectly what he said and the context in which he said it – I’m an atheist not stupid; he said…..
The last sentence is the one that everyone has a problem with. I still stand by what I said, it was criminal for the pope to say what he did and it’s an outrageous lie. Numerous studies show that condoms are one of the best ways to prevent transmission of HIV between sexual partners. I find extremely laughable that you say that people who cannot control their sexual desires have no SOULS. Would that apply to abusive catholic priests as well?
Peaches said..
Peaches, try watching a little more National Geographic, Nat. Geo. Wild or Animal Planet and you’ll see that there a many species who will share food, who will take care of sick animals, who will protect their young or who will even use tools.
The scientific classification of human beings is this…
Domain: Eukaryota
Kingdom: Animalia
Subkingdom: Eumetazoa
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Class: Mammalia
Subclass: Theria
Order: Primates
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Hominidae
Subfamily: Homininae
Tribe: Hominini
Subtribe: Hominina
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens
Subspecies: H. s. sapiens
We are animals.
Peaches said…
and
I was not sneering in my comments, I was criticising an outdated attitude expressed by the pope and the vatican. It’s an outdated attitude that in this case has the very real potential of causing unnecessary and preventable deaths. By coming to the pope’s defense am I correct in assuming that you agree with what he said? If so, do you also agree with the actions taken in this case.
With regard to your second comment, I have been on this planet long enough, experienced quite a lot in life and spent more than enough time alone with my thoughts, to know exactly who I am and what my place is in the universe. I do not need the nonsense taught by a questionable faith to have a “deeper sense” of who I am.
I beg to differ on the deference on not sneering—your comments are unsavoury to say the least and certainly do not offer a balanced, formed view. You fail to highlight the fact that Dr. Green agrees with the Pope.
I point you to this excerpt:-
“There is,” Green added, “a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction ‘technology’ such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by ‘compensating’ or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology.” ( see the full interview with Green here:http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTNlNDc1MmMwNDM0OTEzMjQ4NDc0ZGUyOWYxNmEzN2E)
This will make good reading. A pretty left wing newspaper gives a very unbiased view of the Pope’s recommendations and comments:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/mar/18/aids-pope-africa-condoms
It amazes me that for an atheist, you focus so much on what the Catholic Church has to say.
In response to your comment—
‘Fr instance, there are a few African cultures who encourage men to have more than one wife; the president of the ANC has 5 or 6 wives. Another thing to consider is this, (speaking as a South African), many men here are migrant workers, they move into cities to find work leaving their wives and families at home. Most only go home once or twice a year, what do you think they do for the rest of the time, remain celibate?
Don’t you think that it would be far better for them to take precautions by using a condom than not using anything at all?’
I ask you this: how many of these men would afford to by condoms? How many of them would go out of their way to purchase condoms when the time comes? If you have one dollar as disposable income per day, how much would you set aside for condoms? If you’re a woman, what are you going to do—buy them with the hope that the guy will use them? It just doesn’t start at all from African reality.
At the core of the Pope’s message was the need to humanize sexuality. In our popular culture where “recreational sex” is so widely accepted and promoted we have a dehumanization of sexuality. This contributes greatly not only to AIDS and other sexually tranmitted disease but also to out of wedlock pregnancies and associated poverty and abortion. It is time we emphasized that we areTemples of the Holy Spirit starting with our conception and that we act accordingly.
I like to think of myself as a well informed Catholic believer and I do follow Catholic news closely. Yes of course I’m familiar with the case of the abortion issue with the 9 yr old child in Brazil. Herewith , another site to enlighten you on the Churches real stance in this instance. You may even learn something about Canon law. My immediate reaction was one of sorrow and pity for this child. The bishop concerned has caused headlines in Brazil for being too outspoken and rash. I think this article will speak for itself.
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901197.htm
For the record:- Catholic paedophile priests, as well as the Church AND her members are paying the debt owed to the victims of abuse. Your regular referral to these scandals are rather tiresome now. NO, the Catholic priests are just like any other paedophile, devoid of a properly formed consciences, any meaningful relationship with parental figures (amongst other numerous psychological deficiencies) but , even sinners have souls—— A soul setting us apart from the animal you so fondly embrace. For a well informed atheist, you seem to proud to admit that we are set apart from animals. No amount of scientific geneology could prove otherwise. Animals are incapable of reasoning to the level of that of human beings.
Enjoy the explicit coverage of these scandals and the retribution it brings with it on this site, set up by Catholics in order for justice to be done. NO Catholic will deny these; they see them as a blight and scourge on the Church and the work she does. Just like the many millions of other paedophiles that spread a scourge on society.
Maybe , having read these sordid details, you will have you fill and resort to more reasoned arguments that further your points of view.
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/
Peaches said…
Not only on what the catholic church has to say, but I will criticise any other religion that voices opinions I don’t agree with. The catholic church comes under criticism more often as it pokes it’s nose into every aspect of life. Catholics are more than welcome to believe and practice anything they want to, provided they don’t feel it necessary to impose it on the rest of society.
Peaches said…
Condoms are freely available from clinics, there is no need to purchase them.
Women have very little say when it comes to the use of condoms. To illustrate I will relate a the story of someone I know quite well, let’s call her Ann. She is married to a man who has another wife because it’s part of his culture to have more than one wife. He refuses to wear a condom, even though he knows that he is at risk of getting HIV. He doesn’t care that the women he is having sex with are also at risk. Ann is terrified of getting AIDS because she has already lost three sisters and a brother to the disease. She is well aware of how it’s spread, but won’t insist that her husband wear a condom because she has no say in the relationship.Her husband can have as many wives as he can afford, it’s been part of his culture for centuries. While there are some men who do have monogamous relationships, there are still many who follow cultural traditions. The point is behaviour will not change quickly, it takes time – so it would make sense to try and get people to protect themselves in the meantime.
For a more realistic view on HIV and AIDS in Africa read this by Rev. Mother Meredith Moise
Which brings me to the point of Dr. Green; unless there are more studies done to confirm his statements and until more scientists come out to support his views, I will continue to promote what all organisations dealing with HIV and AIDS say – condoms are the best protection against HIV and AIDS.
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/03/why-the-pope-is-wrong-on-hiv-t.html
Peaches said…
I read the article you linked to and I quote….
Which means that all those involved have been excommunicated anyway, it’s “automatically incurred at the moment a direct abortion is carried out”, the difference is that Archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho said it publicly thereby creating a PR disaster for the church.
Peaches said…
Do you think that paying a monetary debt in any way helps those victims deal with what they went through? How many of those priests were criminally prosecuted? How many of those priests were thrown out of the church or defrocked? The church dealt with the problem by moving priests from one church to another, thereby exposing other innocent children to these paedophiles. The church went out of it’s way to hide the problem, they were forced to deal with it because so many victims came forward. Why did the church not report these priests to the police?
I really don’t care how tiresome you find it, I will continue to bring it up as a reminder to catholics, and other religions, that they are fallible.
Peaches said…
So does this mean that orphans or kids from single parent homes, who do not have any meaningful parental relationships will either go on to become paedophiles or develop some type of mental deficiency? You’re talking nonsense.
Peaches said…
Are you implying I get enjoyment or some kind of thrill reading about things like this? Because if you are , you’re seriously deranged. Stories like that disgust and sicken me and makes me wonder how people can still continue to be part of an organisation that goes out of it’s way to cover up it’s own evil deeds.
You continue to miss the point, is this on purpose? I think any sane person would agree that money will not heal psychological wounds, but this is how our society works.
The reason I sent you the link with regard to paedophile priests is precisely because I ADMIT along with well as the 2 billion Catholics out there:-
1. that Catholic priests are fallible, just like all the rest of us;
2. that the Joe Soap’s of Catholicism care enough about these abhorrent atrocities to set up an organisation to gather more information and encourage others to come forward, report, ask for help and assistance, in order to work alongside the church in making sure that retribution in made to these victims of abuse;
3. that the BISHOPS were very much in the wrong—-and that they were the ones that moved priests around, were totally blind-siding the issue, and they are the ones that should be brought to the forefront and spotlighted;
4. that in today’s society, the way that we make amends and show our willingness to make amends in the best way possible is through financial, and psychological support (given in bucketfuls by the Church): that we ADMIT our failings and hopefully can move on. (I refer you to the Truth and Reconciliation forums in SA, brought much healing?) and these scandals are now being dealt with within the normal channels of society. Do you have any further suggestions as to how retribution could be made?;
5. that the Catholic church is not the only Christian denomination that has paedophiles in her midst (further reading on the site will enlighten you on these facts)—this is not put forward in order to justify behaviours.
AND
6. that the vast majority of people are fully aware of these sexually deviant priests, because of it’s newsworthiness.
7. that your referral to these atrocities is banal and repetitive, almost impulsively included to ANY argument in order to further you mission to discredit the Catholic Church.
8. that sexual deviance of priests are particularly shocking because of their supposed spiritual duty to protect their flock.
You discuss these atrocities in a way that suggests that nothing has been done to these priests. I do not have links on hand, but yes, priests have been defrocked, new laws regarding deviant priests were instituted by John Paul II in the late ‘80’s if my memory serves me correctly. I doubt though that you would see any merit in this even if you had the link to hand. I put it to you, to do much more research and to be objective in your enquiries.
On this issue I now rest my case.
With regard to the case in Brazil:- The little girl is NOT excommunicated, the adults are. The church does not accept abortion period. Any further debate on this issue I deem futile. I did want to highlight though that the Church is not cold and uncaring through the link I sent.
Your arguments put forth, allude to the necessity for proven and tested research. Are you more knowledgeable, experienced, well-read, exposed to scientific research than a Dr. at Harvard (one of the most respected institutions on the planet) ?????? Are you of such a high opinion of your knowledge to ask for further evidence to support his research already put forth, when the rest of academia would sit up and listen to what a Dr. from Harvard has to say on any issue, and take it seriously?
By the way, I must apologise for the lack of medical and psychological evidence with regard to the profile of a paedophile personality, I don’t think you arguments warrant them anyway, to be frank.
By the way, I am proud to be part of a universal church, that has brought God, (education, health services, social services, which are too numerous to list here); and willingness to stand up and maintain spiritual truth in the face of rising and continued secular attacks from all corners.
I am proud to stand up for these truths and argue as well in the face of defamatory and unjust criticism from blogs such as the Skeptic Blacksheep, whose arguments are based on bias and many untruths about the Church.
Apologies for my late reply,
Peaches asked…..
How about an independent criminal investigation with no interference from the RCC? Instead of just moving priests from church to church, I’d like to see paedophiles charged, tried and jailed if found guilty. I would like to see those priests defrocked and excommunicated. I’d like to see Catholics stand up and refuse to contribute to the RCC until such things are done. I don’t see why the “Joe Soaps”, as you call them, should be made to pay for the crimes of the church, it’s not right.
Peaches said…
Peaches, I do not in any way think I know more or am more intelligent than Dr. Green, however, nor am I just going to accept his research just because he’s from Harvard. That’s not how it works. I would like to see other independent research showing the same results as Dr. Green before accepting them as fact. Asking for further evidence should not be seen as me “having a high opinion of of my own knowledge”, but rather as me not blindly accepting what someone has to say because I’m impressed with the institution he chose to study at. Let me also add that Dr. Green is the only scientist to put forth those observations, I haven’t come across any other scientist publically agreeing with him – in fact the response has been just the opposite.
Let me also say that I do not ignore all the good that the church has done, but unless people speak out – even if it’s heathens like me – we will continue to get people within religion who think that they can cover up their crimes and get away with it.
the Pope is right. HIV is a punishment from our Lord God for the filthy activities of a sex addicted world. HIV is particularly active in Africa for the simple reason these people worship voodoo gods and make blood sacrifices of children and animals.
How to control HIV? Simple.. worship Jesus. Support your local church and follow the message of the Gospels.
It is easy to save your soul.